The Brink: Many organizations have been doing DEI work for decades—with many more starting initiatives in the wake of George Floyd’s murder—yet it seems we don’t really have a comprehensive idea of what works and what doesn’t. Why is that?

Wang: Well, I’m not too surprised that we don’t know that much. Historically, this kind of work hasn’t been valued or prioritized as a research topic or an organizational focus, and so there have been limited resources and support to conduct this type of work, and even less so to evaluate it rigorously. It also hasn’t always been an area of priority for publication in peer-reviewed journals, so that serves as another barrier.

The Brink: That academic gap feels like a big problem given the amount of pushback on DEI initiatives.

Wang: One path forward is really to invest in rigorous evaluation, so that we can learn from what we have done in the past and don’t keep investing in one-time online trainings that might sound nice in theory, or might change knowledge or attitudes in the short term, but over time, don’t change much. It’s a disservice to invest in these kinds of trainings, but then not to have more sustainable or longitudinal impact. And that’s the goal of most organizations—they want to create a more inclusive workplace environment.

The Brink: Despite the gaps in our knowledge, are there certain things that successful approaches seem to have in common?

Wang: Yes. We know that one-time trainings that only target knowledge and awareness are not going to be as effective as longitudinal trainings that focus not only on defining concepts or touching upon different kinds of topics on the surface level, but also really provide additional support, training, and skills. Whether that’s how to navigate challenging conversations, how to demonstrate empathy and cultural humility—those kinds of skills are ones that people can take with them over the course of their career, and they can build on them over time. One other limitation I see is organizations will start and stop with diversity. I would actually flip it and say, start with inclusion. And when I say inclusion, I’m talking about engaging individuals or groups who have been historically excluded from decision-making or activities, and in a way that distributes and shares access to opportunities and resources. And if you start with inclusion, that can drive equity, and it can also encourage diversity. It’s a more strategic way to focus on DEI and start asking ourselves, who’s at the table and who’s missing when decisions are made? And have we asked ourselves and others where our blind spots might be?

The Brink: Which companies or organizations are doing a good job when it comes to DEI work?

Wang: The Groundwater Approach by the Racial Equity Institute. They have done a really good job at meeting with organizations from different sectors, and they built in a practical understanding of what structural racism is, and how different entities—whether or not they work in racial justice or policy—can, within their mission and their structure, start thinking about ways in which to promote racial and social equity and justice. They do a great job at providing more longitudinal trainings for different organizations.

The Brink: Many have argued that DEI initiatives are an unnecessary and damaging waste of time, overly political, or a distraction from what an organization should be doing, whether that’s selling a product or educating young people. What’s the case for keeping them?

Wang: In the past few years, we’ve seen a number of organizations who have pledged both to invest in DEI and to also prioritize employee health. But I’ve seen very few address the two as interconnected, and they’re very much related. I think there’s a case for synchronizing those efforts. Right now, what we’re seeing is a lot of organizations putting them into two different silos, but we know from the research that experiencing workplace discrimination is directly associated with mental and physical health. Those who experience discrimination are more likely to have depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress, and disruptive changes in blood pressure and sleep. We also know that discrimination contributes to job-related stress and burnout, including intent to quit. So, if we’re thinking about recruitment and retention and the overall health of an organization, creating inclusive and equitable work environments can actually facilitate success in those outcomes, as well. Regardless of the evolving dialogue, the principles that DEI focuses on are very relevant for organizations to create workplaces that are sustainable and equitable.

The Brink: How does this fit with your other research?

Wang: I’ll tell you a little bit of a personal story, and why I got into the work that I do. I was born in China and I emigrated to the US when I was four. I lived in Boston, and my parents, like many other immigrants, were focused on finding a place where they could build more economic security and they were looking at education as a great equalizer. They stumbled across METCO, which is one of the longest-standing school desegregation programs in the country, so from elementary through high school, I lived in Roslindale and took the bus to Belmont. The neighborhoods were completely different—racially, economically, environmentally—even though they were only 10 miles apart. I noticed that the health concerns that my peers in Boston had were different than the health concerns that my peers in Belmont had. It wasn’t until I went to undergrad and grad school that I learned about redlining and racial residential segregation that created economically, socially, and racially disparate environments. That was the catalyst for my wanting to be involved in community health and health equity.

We know that employment, housing, and transportation are all related to health. My work is unpacking those larger structural, macro-level factors and then encouraging people to make the connections and coming up with intervention approaches or strategies to promote more equity.

The Brink: What’s one thing you’d like everyone reading this to take away from your latest paper?

Wang: Transformational DEI and antiracism work is a marathon, it’s not a sprint. Having longer-term trainings and really embedding DEI into your organizational strategy at large, that’s the way we can build on our knowledge and skills over time and have lasting change.